Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Discussion of all things crypto and blockchain.
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Southpaw
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Southpaw » Mon May 14, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:
Southpaw wrote:https://medium.com/crypto-oracle/the-top-10-reasons-people-cant-see-the-crypto-light-ffcb8317b80a?source=linkShare-ba07a665a5ad-1526213007


That's a good top 10 list. Spot on.


I read the article and agree with most of the points about different barriers people have regarding crypto currencies.
.



I too agreed with most of the points of the article that's why I posted it.

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SilverDoge
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon May 14, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:I firmly disagree with your take on the article as spot on. Evidenced by people such as myself, and there are others too, who are not crypto-ignoramous and still choose to abstain from crypto-currency. My position holds that the author was incorrect at best, or intentionally disingenuous/misleading would be my guess.

Furthermore, I don't appreciate you calling me personally into the mix and trying to make me look like a hypocrite with that internet use/porn supporting straw-man.


I shall await your well worded letter to that author of that article letting him know that you are not a crypto-ignoramous and you strenuously object to his top 10 list. I'd start with your moral objection. Should be interesting.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby blevdawgAg47 » Mon May 14, 2018

SilverDoge wrote:
blevdawgAg47 wrote:I firmly disagree with your take on the article as spot on. Evidenced by people such as myself, and there are others too, who are not crypto-ignoramous and still choose to abstain from crypto-currency. My position holds that the author was incorrect at best, or intentionally disingenuous/misleading would be my guess.

Furthermore, I don't appreciate you calling me personally into the mix and trying to make me look like a hypocrite with that internet use/porn supporting straw-man.


I shall await your well worded letter to that author of that article letting him know that you are not a crypto-ignoramous and you strenuously object to his top 10 list. I'd start with your moral objection. Should be interesting.

My intuition has served me well in life so far, so I gotta roll with it. How do you mute this damn thing? :lol:
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon May 14, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:
blevdawgAg47 wrote:I firmly disagree with your take on the article as spot on. Evidenced by people such as myself, and there are others too, who are not crypto-ignoramous and still choose to abstain from crypto-currency. My position holds that the author was incorrect at best, or intentionally disingenuous/misleading would be my guess.

Furthermore, I don't appreciate you calling me personally into the mix and trying to make me look like a hypocrite with that internet use/porn supporting straw-man.


I shall await your well worded letter to that author of that article letting him know that you are not a crypto-ignoramous and you strenuously object to his top 10 list. I'd start with your moral objection. Should be interesting.

My intuition has served me well in life so far, so I gotta roll with it. How do you mute this damn thing? :lol:


How to Hide Crypto Threads from "View New Posts"
http://www.bullionstacker.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=29275
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby MasterBlaster » Tue May 15, 2018

Thanks SilverDoge...
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Tue May 15, 2018

I think there might be a BS member or 2 that participated in this #bankersagainstbitcoin protest:

https://twitter.com/Token_Mario/status/996028695176413184

Quick reminder: bitcoin has now "died" 293 times according to media, elites, and important people in the world.... https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

I realize the "protest" is a staged joke, but those signs are hilarious
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue May 15, 2018

Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Thu May 17, 2018

When the internet was invented, it was used by geeks, academics, coders, to do mundane things until the technology evolved to be applicable to the common everyday user. The objections to the early internet were that criminals, pedophiles, pornographers and other illicit characters would use it for evil ends. With any disruptive technology, there is a risk that criminals will use it, but that doesn't make the technology guilty of any wrongdoing, or the people who invented the technology or are using the technology guilty by proxy.

Bitcoin and crypto are the same. The early users were using bitcoin academically and the first ones profiting by the use of bitcoin were drug dealers on the Silk Road. We have evolved from that (thought the Dark Web still exists of course) and the majority of bitcoin adoption is happening among regular folks who are early adopters of technology. Some people have a "moral objection" to bitcoin, crypto, ICOs, or some other imaginary villain. Interestingly enough, the largest event in all of crypto just wrapped up yesterday. Consensus in New York City has been going on for four years now. The first year, in 2015, 400 people were in attendance, in 2017 it was 2,700. This year it was estimated that 4,000 people would attend, but it ended up being in excess of 8,000 people. There were 5 different presentation stages running simultaneously. Prices for this conference were in excess of $2,000 per person! Last minute pricing at the door was $3,000. Students & government employees got in for $999. This conference raised over $17 million.

For all those who think bitcoin is a fad, or that blockchain technology is a flash in the pan, how do you square this circle? Why would over 8,000 people pay over $1,000 each to attend a conference of an up and coming technology that is a fraud? It would be interesting to have a doubter on the stage at Consensus, with his primary thesis that crypto, and the people involved in this space, aren't of high enough moral character to be worth the time and effort and digital money/solutions are morally not up to par. Satoshi and his initial followers were looking for a real solution to fight back against corrupt money, banksters, government surveillance, and crony capitalism. A solution to the problem that currency can now be used as a system of control by those in power to track everything you do/buy. I used to think that PMs were the only solution to break the backs of these elitists, but now we have more than just one option. Being morally opposed to "digital money" is about as useful as being morally opposed to rainbows.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2018/05/15/consensus-2018-what-youve-missed-so-far-from-the-biggest-bitcoin-event/#61fda3e1761a
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby blevdawgAg47 » Thu May 17, 2018

Rainbows...Interesting analogy. Maybe rainbows aren't bad, but people chasing imaginary pots of gold could be. It's the greedy, get rich quick mentality that it attracts.

I can imagine the crowds at that blipcoin conference. $ signs in their eyes. Both the wolves and the sheep. No, thanks.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Thu May 17, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:Rainbows...Interesting analogy. Maybe rainbows aren't bad, but people chasing imaginary pots of gold could be. It's the greedy, get rich quick mentality that it attracts.

I can imagine the crowds at that blipcoin conference. $ signs in their eyes. Both the wolves and the sheep. No, thanks.


You don't seriously believe its only sheep and wolves right? There are shepards, groomers, guards, etc all at that event. Focusing on the negative you will only see the negative when in reality there is a balance to all and the initial creation was not for wolves but for the sheep to regain some power from gov't wolves. Now you just have more people. Now that you said its imaginary, what about the people that are doing a career shift to get into that space, like myself.

Yesterday, i was just laid off from a big corp. I am not planning to go back to work at another large corp right away, before that i'm giving blockchain a full time run to focus full time, many people in the sector are doing that. Do you think these startups like google/fb/amazon/etc all started their companies without some hope of reaching nice pots of gold when they first started or the people that work for them? The whole tech field is full of aspiring entreprenuers which you label as wolves or sheep. There are some wolves and many sheep, but not more than normal in America, just includes more global inclusion. Capitalism is a thing.

Ultimately, just trying to say, there are people that want to grow with the tech as it evolves. I'm pretty certain, next place I land will be a blockchain based company. Crypto has given me more financial freedom than I've ever had in my life. I don't have to look for a job right away, it helped me get out of debt. There are people out there that use these opportunities to benefit their lives. One thing I've been saying recently (to friends who haven't sold, another discussion on its own), is when you make life changing money, change your life. Now that I'm out and on severance without any major debt and a solid stack, I'm not in a rush to go back to the corp. world and I don't have to. This layoff couldn't have happened at "a better time" for me. Since crypto helped improve my financial foundation. It doesn't have to be a pot of gold, it can just be a new type of work that's interesting and cutting edge. People themselves don't have to be devs to be involved in blockchain tech. There's a whole ecosystem.

I will agree though that there are MANY groups trying to take advantage of what's happening and if you want to sit that out, that's fine, but there will always be opportunists in different disciplines that come into the space to extract maximum benefit (which can be many things). Is that a bad thing in a new space? Every new breakthrough, there's a "gold rush" a "space race" a "R/E bubble" etc.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby natsb88 » Thu May 17, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:Rainbows...Interesting analogy. Maybe rainbows aren't bad, but people chasing imaginary pots of gold could be. It's the greedy, get rich quick mentality that it attracts.

Tulving's marketing schemes, Tulving's ponzi scheme, Bullion Direct's ponzi scheme, Northwest Territorial Mint's ponzi scheme, NTR buying contraband gold, all of the infomercial / telemarketer / magazine ad coin dealers that target the elderly selling graded coins for 5x - 10x market value, Chinese counterfeiters pumping out millions of fakes in hundreds of designs, eBay/Craigslist/Facebook/Instagram/etc. scammers peddling those counterfeits, members who organize giant Mint purchases and then disappear, members who back out of bets, hustlers rainbow toning slabbed coins inside the slabs, domestic counterfeiters faking numismatics and old pour Engelhard bars with real silver...

We'd better steer clear of gold and silver and coins. Too many imaginary pots of gold / get rich quick mentalities.

;)

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby blevdawgAg47 » Thu May 17, 2018

silverpv wrote:


I think you have the right mentality, spv. All the best in your new endeavors. Pursue the privatized applications that Digital Ledger Technology has to offer, not the speculative currency casino :thumbup: One critisism about you're google/fb/Amazon etc example; If you don't know the VC capital firm In-q-tel, you should look into it.

Alright, in the interest of full disclosure and at the risk of being labeled a conspiracy nut. I feel like I should fully explain my resistance to digital currency and bitcoin. It started with an interview I saw back in 2007.

Anybody ever heard of Aaron Russo? He was a hot-shot Hollywood producer in the 80s and 90s. He became politically active and made a documentary, Freedom to Fascism. Was recruited by Nick Rockefeller to join the Council on Foreign Relations, CFR. He told the story in an interview, and died shortly thereafter. What was revealed in that interview, among other things, was the elite's plan to get everybody implanted with an RFID chip and have all money, accounts, tracking, done through those chips.You all can look it up, if so inclined. Warning: It's pretty chilling, if your not familiar with the material.

So how does this tie-in with cryptography/bitcoin? Going back to 1987, the NSA and MIT had a joint-venture and subsequent white paper "How to make a mint with cryptographic currency" This information can be looked as well, but you'll only find the exoteric story, intended for public consumption.

Fast forward to early 2009, and Satoshi's white paper. Look at the timing. Right in the middle of the GFC, when smart people are beginning to loose faith in their governments and financial institutions. Bitcoin is introduced quietly, and specifically in and around the underground libertarian/anarcho-capitalist community. Appealing to their desire for a de-centralized, peer to peer way to stick it to the man. Anyway, the point is we were targeted. That's why it feels like a trap, and I don't want any part of it.

This is prolly all I'll be saying, not interested in taking on all the Bitcoin believers here. If anyone would like to communicate further, please do it pm.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Thu May 17, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote: What was revealed in that interview, among other things, was the elite's plan to get everybody implanted with an RFID chip


At least one company already does this:

https://www.cnet.com/news/employees-off ... y-for-now/

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Fri May 18, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:I think you have the right mentality, spv. All the best in your new endeavors. Pursue the privatized applications that Digital Ledger Technology has to offer, not the speculative currency casino :thumbup: One critisism about you're google/fb/Amazon etc example; If you don't know the VC capital firm In-q-tel, you should look into it.

Alright, in the interest of full disclosure and at the risk of being labeled a conspiracy nut. I feel like I should fully explain my resistance to digital currency and bitcoin. It started with an interview I saw back in 2007.

Anybody ever heard of Aaron Russo? He was a hot-shot Hollywood producer in the 80s and 90s. He became politically active and made a documentary, Freedom to Fascism. Was recruited by Nick Rockefeller to join the Council on Foreign Relations, CFR. He told the story in an interview, and died shortly thereafter. What was revealed in that interview, among other things, was the elite's plan to get everybody implanted with an RFID chip and have all money, accounts, tracking, done through those chips.You all can look it up, if so inclined. Warning: It's pretty chilling, if your not familiar with the material.

So how does this tie-in with cryptography/bitcoin? Going back to 1987, the NSA and MIT had a joint-venture and subsequent white paper "How to make a mint with cryptographic currency" This information can be looked as well, but you'll only find the exoteric story, intended for public consumption.

This is prolly all I'll be saying, not interested in taking on all the Bitcoin believers here. If anyone would like to communicate further, please do it pm.


It sounds like you are a follower of Chris Duane. He uses nearly this same exact argument/logic. I'm not sure why it would surprise anyone that MIT or the NSA would be looking into a cryptographic currency before it was actually invented. Milton Friedman also predicted bitcoin in the 90's. Of course he didn't use the term bitcoin, but an online digital currency. So what? It makes no sense to me that the US would spread the dollar hegemony across the globe, to include the petro-dollar since 1973, all to then undermine their own currency by the NSA inventing and promoting bitcoin. I know people desperately want to know Satoshi's identity, but the guy was truly a humble genius to maintain his anonymity. Who can the government go after in regards to bitcoin? There is no central person to target, no boogieman to point at and call a felon.

In regards to your RFID chip concerns, I commented on that back in AUG 2017 here: http://www.bullionstacker.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=15864&start=1380#p542459

You mentioned In-Q-Tel and oddly enough I have heard of them, but for only one reason. There is an employee there working on his PhD, named Nic Acton, and he wrote a paper titled "Blockchain Overview and Quantum Computing Capable Threats" on 03MAY18. In it he quotes the QRL GitHub and the QRL whitepaper. https://nicacton.com/blog/quantum-blockchain/

blevdawgAg47 wrote:Fast forward to early 2009, and Satoshi's white paper. Look at the timing. Right in the middle of the GFC, when smart people are beginning to loose faith in their governments and financial institutions. Bitcoin is introduced quietly, and specifically in and around the underground libertarian/anarcho-capitalist community. Appealing to their desire for a de-centralized, peer to peer way to stick it to the man. Anyway, the point is we were targeted. That's why it feels like a trap, and I don't want any part of it.


The timing isn't suspicious if you understand the cryptographic technology leading up to bitcoin. While bitcoin was launched on 03JAN09, Satoshi was working on it a long time before that. Go watch Banking on Bitcoin (Netflix) to get a history of the tech leading up to bitcoin. Libertarians weren't the first adopters of bitcoin either. They were the second wave. It was the cypherpunks and coders who understood cryptography who were first. These guys were the biggest anti-NSA, anti-spying types you could find. When you say "we" were targeted, I don't know what that means. Who is we? Targeted for what? To use a better, non-inflationary, mathematically controlled via consensus, decentralized, currency that isn't issued by a nation-state? What is the down-side again?

People are going to believe what they want to believe. We had a flat-earth thread on BS going for about 5 pages before that got locked. I can't disprove your conspiracy; I can merely show the facts, advantages, and actual physical usage that I and others are benefiting from. People are going to connect dots together that they perceive means an open and shut case. The real question is what level of future evidence would convince you that bitcoin isn't an NSA invented scam? Japan declared bitcoin a legal tender currency in 2017, would another 5 countries doing the same thing have any effect on your opinion? What if one of the G20 countries declared it was going to buy 500k bitcoins to hold as part of their foreign reserve holdings, and sell dollars? At what point do you admit you might be wrong?

On the flip side, I will admit that bitcoin is an NSA invented scam if Satoshi is provably unmasked and his identity outs him as an NSA employee, or if bitcoin goes anywhere under $10 and closes on the daily chart under that price. In that instance, the NSA was able to kill or manipulate the market to such an extent that they might as well own it.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Fri May 18, 2018

silverpv wrote:Yesterday, i was just laid off from a big corp. I am not planning to go back to work at another large corp right away, before that i'm giving blockchain a full time run to focus full time, many people in the sector are doing that.


Best of luck to you my friend. :thumbup:
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Fri May 18, 2018

natsb88 wrote:Tulving's marketing schemes, Tulving's ponzi scheme, Bullion Direct's ponzi scheme, Northwest Territorial Mint's ponzi scheme, NTR buying contraband gold, all of the infomercial / telemarketer / magazine ad coin dealers that target the elderly selling graded coins for 5x - 10x market value, Chinese counterfeiters pumping out millions of fakes in hundreds of designs, eBay/Craigslist/Facebook/Instagram/etc. scammers peddling those counterfeits, members who organize giant Mint purchases and then disappear, members who back out of bets, hustlers rainbow toning slabbed coins inside the slabs, domestic counterfeiters faking numismatics and old pour Engelhard bars with real silver...

We'd better steer clear of gold and silver and coins. Too many imaginary pots of gold / get rich quick mentalities.

;)

You've convinced me, nats. Way too many bad actors involved in precious metals. You didn't even mention JPM and others who hold metric tons of silver keeping the price down. Fricking precious metals are a fraud. No thanks.
:lol:
Seriously, ANYTHING of real or perceived value will be used by bad people to do bad things. What's the most common currency in the illegal drug, weapons and sex markets? Cash. The printed American dollar. Money is the root of all evil, the saying goes. Nowadays, money means a much broader range of things than it used to. Bitcoin is another currency, albeit of a fundamentally different type than the green stuff the government prints around the clock. People value it, so bad people will do bad things to acquire it, and use it to do bad things. What else is new? I imagine cavemen were beating each other with clubs to steal each others' wealth, such as it was.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sat May 19, 2018

YouTube: Winklevoss take on Bitcoin.
[
Last edited by Bucketeer on Sat May 19, 2018, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sat May 19, 2018

tdtwedt wrote:The opinion of Warren Buffett matters to me a lot more than your opinion.


Warren Buffet admits he missed the tech stocks in the early days like Apple & IBM because he didn't understand them. Probably a bad guy to take next level tech advice from. Perhaps a better public face would be Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak. What is his opinion on crypto?

Dump facebook. Ethereum is a platform that was just like Apple's and could become as influential as his company became. Woz was "extremely upbeat" about ETH.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/montymunford/2018/05/18/apples-steve-wozniak-dumps-facebook-and-thinks-ethereum-could-be-the-new-apple/#cfc62683de5c
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sat May 19, 2018

tdtwedt wrote:The opinion of Warren Buffett matters to me a lot more than your opinion.


The performance of Travis's Bitcoin has far outperformed anything Warren has ever invested in, and Doge isn't a one-trick pony. His other coins have far outperformed Buffet, all of them in a very short holding period.

My story is pretty much the same. So are many other people in this forum.

I respect Warren, but it's hard to argue against the facts.
Last edited by Bucketeer on Sat May 19, 2018, edited 5 times in total.
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Long John
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sat May 19, 2018

A few years ago someone published Warren Buffet's 10 Tips on Investing. At the top of the list:

Invest in what you know, and nothing else.

Hence Bitcoin did not appeal to him at all, if he even gave it a glance. It didn't fall under the umbrella of things he understood. Amazon was another newfangled concept he passed on. Now that Bitcoin's price is orders of magnitude beyond the point where he ever might have invested, and being near the end of his life, his mindset has not changed and won't. Buffet responding negatively to a question about Bitcoin is a shrug. If you want a negative comment about Bitcoin, there are reliable places to get it.


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