Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Discussion of all things crypto and blockchain.
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SilverDoge
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Thu May 10, 2018

jcz1 wrote:While I can see your point about bitcoin's value being linked to some alt-coins, and those alt-coins are technically blockchain applications, my point is the generic blockchain application has nothing to do with bitcoin or its value. So to link "limitless applications" of blockchain to the value of bitcoin itself is misleading. Any such link is with a specific set of applications (only alt-coins as far as I can tell), and even that link, as you suggest, may be temporary.


You have made a decent argument here. Limitless applications of blockchain technology does not have a direct causal effect on the overall value proposition of bitcoin (in theory). But I will argue that it does have a network and market effect. Is it possible that all these other industry blockchain applications actually hurt the adoption of bitcoin? I guess it is possible, but I don't see it as likely or even practical. If bitcoin wasn't being actively developed, maybe? Let's look at the reality of the numbers. In the past 2 years, bitcoin dominance has fallen from 82% of the crypto market, to 36% today. This is directly tied to other crypto projects of varying value popping up all over and eating up a large percentage of the overall crypto market capitalization. Has this hurt bitcoin's value in the last 2 years? Obviously not, the price movements speak for themselves.

Your argument sounds good in a theoretical world inside a controlled box. But one needs to realize that the bitcoin protocol is where so much of the innovation is truly happening. From HD wallets, to APIs, resource libraries, segregated witness, lightning networks, etc. The open source community of people developing and using bitcoin is immense. Additionally, bitcoin is the most secure crypto (currently), and the most battle-tested against malicious attacks. When new technologies are brought out, people often copy the most successful thing and attempt to differentiate in some specific way to add additional value. Now we have over a handful of different consensus mechanisms other than simply Proof of Work (PoW) like bitcoin https://www.coindesk.com/short-guide-blockchain-consensus-protocols/ but that isn't having a negative effect on the overall bitcoin adoption. When someone learns about a new disruptive technology in the medical field (as an example), many will ask how this came about - and the answer inevitably leads back to bitcoin and a continued/increased awareness. Which grows the overall network, which adds value. Therefore I don't consider my statement misleading because in the real world (not in the theoretical world) the data show us that adding additional blockchain applications does increase overall bitcoin adoption and value.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Thu May 10, 2018

SilverDoge wrote: the data show us that adding additional blockchain applications does increase overall bitcoin adoption and value.


What data? What additional applications? The apps you listed are all specific to bitcoins and/or alt-coins. Where is the cause/effect proof for these? Maybe increased bitcoin awareness is causing those additional applications, maybe the other way around, maybe neither.

Also, even if you could prove cause/effect within these bitcoin applications, to extrapolate that effect to other theoretical examples such as the medical field is pure speculation, possibly even wishful thinking.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Thu May 10, 2018

jcz1 wrote:
SilverDoge wrote: the data show us that adding additional blockchain applications does increase overall bitcoin adoption and value.

jcz1 wrote:What data?

The data I specifically sited in my post: In the past 2 years, bitcoin dominance has fallen from 82% of the crypto market, to 36% today. This is directly tied to other crypto projects of varying value popping up all over and eating up a large percentage of the overall crypto market capitalization. Has this hurt bitcoin's value in the last 2 years? Obviously not, the price movements speak for themselves.
jcz1 wrote:What additional applications? The apps you listed are all specific to bitcoins and/or alt-coins. Where is the cause/effect proof for these? Maybe increased bitcoin awareness is causing those additional applications, maybe the other way around, maybe neither.

Maybe both. It doesn't matter if bitcoin is helping alt-coin awareness, or if an alt-coin is helping bitcoin awareness - it all adds to the overall market consciousness and therefore adoption of the crypto markets.
jcz1 wrote:Also, even if you could prove cause/effect within these bitcoin applications, to extrapolate that effect to other theoretical examples such as the medical field is pure speculation, possibly even wishful thinking.

I can't prove cause/effect. I can only observe the market realities. For example, if I am a gambler who has been ripped off on some shoddy online casino that wouldn't allow me to withdraw my funds after winning $50,000 on their platform, and I was searching for a new solution.... like a fully transparent casino that doesn't hold your funds because they are held by you within an Ethereum smart contract while you gamble, then I would discover a new and better way to conduct my online gambling. This would create awareness for both an online blockchain casino, and I would need to figure out how to play. Currently that means I would have to go get some bitcoin or ETH first, then buy those tokens to go gamble. Again, increasing crypto/bitcoin awareness and market depth. This is one small example of how applications/projects/businesses in the real world will help bring about market adoption and awareness of bitcoin/crypto in general. The medical field/medical records management is another example. And there are countless others.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Thu May 10, 2018

Still sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking. I'm sure there are polls that show that crypto awareness is higher now than it was in December (or the same at worst), yet the market cap is down. So no cause/effect there.

Let's say some wonderful app comes along that lets the medical field store/transmit/etc patient records in a bullet-proof, secure manner. Do you really think patients are going to care enough to look into the tech behind it, then look further and discover bitcoin, and then go even further and invest? Sorry, that makes no sense to me.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby scottcped » Thu May 10, 2018

Most of the members here I've run into are believers in being prepared in SHTF scenarios. So I have this question: What happens when you can't get access to the internet? How much is any crypto currency worth then? Even a greenback will buy a can of beans if needed. Call me a 48 year old Dinosaur, but I don't trust it. Just like I don't trust the digital balances in my checking account, 401(k), etc. Which is why I have physical silver, and fiat... I'll sit back and admire all those who build massive crypto fortunes. And for every crypto gozillionaire, I'm sure there'll be dozens of broke azz people who lost it all for one reason or another.
I'm really becoming convicted that a fortune is only built little by little. Most of those that chase after quick and vast riches will only find ruin.
Of course, Gibbs rule #51 most certainly applies.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Fri May 11, 2018

scottcped wrote:Most of the members here I've run into are believers in being prepared in SHTF scenarios. So I have this question: What happens when you can't get access to the internet? How much is any crypto currency worth then? Even a greenback will buy a can of beans if needed. Call me a 48 year old Dinosaur, but I don't trust it. Just like I don't trust the digital balances in my checking account, 401(k), etc. Which is why I have physical silver, and fiat... I'll sit back and admire all those who build massive crypto fortunes. And for every crypto gozillionaire, I'm sure there'll be dozens of broke azz people who lost it all for one reason or another.
I'm really becoming convicted that a fortune is only built little by little. Most of those that chase after quick and vast riches will only find ruin.
Of course, Gibbs rule #51 most certainly applies.


I completely understand this sentiment, and you've made some great points. If you go back to the beginnings of this thread, from pages 30 and before then, you'll see some of these same objections. Notably, a member who is no longer with us, InfleXion, had these same exact reservations and passed on bitcoin when he learned about it and it dropped to $3. Simply taking $300 and locking in 100 bitcoins and doing nothing with it would have made him almost a millionaire today - for a measly $300. But these objections get in our heads and it is MUCH easier to take the path of least resistance and current momentum that we are already comfortable with instead of trying that new thing that might be total crap, or it might be the solution to fiat currencies.

I too believe in preparing for a SHTF scenario. Which is why I hold gold, silver and bitcoin (and other crypto). I do not know the future, buy why can't a person both plan for a SHTF collapse, as well as taking a few risks in case the dollar continues to drag along and slowly lose value but be the primary non-gold backed currency like it has since 1971? People have been calling for the collapse of the dollar every year since 1972. Will it happen this year? I have no idea. But I prepare like it might, and I prepare as though it might not happen until my kids are in their 80's. One preparation does not preclude the other.

To address your direct question, if you can't access the internet - is that due to a global internet outage (in which case we're screwed) or a local / regional outage? If regional, simply go to where the internet is working, or wait until your internet is restored. When it comes to "fortune building" little by little is merely one method, and there is nothing wrong with that. Spending less than one earns and saving/investing the difference is prudent in every aspect. Buy why not use that savings/investment and spread out your expected return and risk profiles? Nobody here has ever suggested putting 100% of your savings into crypto. My standard line is maybe 5%, up to 10% if you can handle volatility. Why is this unreasonable? Is bitcoin positive or negatively correlated to stock downturns? We don't really know yet, but it might just be the best performing "asset" in a market collapse.

When you say "I don't trust it [bitcoin]" what are you really getting at? What aspect don't you trust? Trust is a metered thing. I trust Hillary Clinton.... to act like Hillary. I trust JP Morgan to act in its own interests and screw over the little guy or even their own clients to make a profit and stay in business. I trust the US govt & federal reserve & the banking system to continue printing (physically & digitally) and creating money (debt) out of nothing. I have no control, oversight, or power over any of these things. Bitcoin is OPEN-SOURCE. You can read the code. You can participate on the GitHub. You don't need to trust the miners, because they are all acting in their own self-interests, as the system is designed to do. You don't need to trust the transactions will be charged back, because after 6 confirmations on the blockchain, it is nearly statistically impossible to undo a transaction based on the immense math in a proof of work system. You don't need to trust the custodian of your funds like a bank who might close, go bankrupt, become insolvent, defraud clients/investors, etc because you are your own bank and control your own funds. The largest risk to using crypto are the USERS themselves.

Now if you don't trust that bitcoin will be here in 10 years, or that people will really use it, or that its price is too volatile in USD terms - I would call that faith (or lack thereof), not trust. You don't have faith that the system will be around, or that governments will allow it to be successful, or that it will be a reliable unit of account or storage of value perhaps. And that is a fair assessment, but again nobody suggests putting your life savings into bitcoin. I challenge people to try it out. Get a flavor for what it feels like to control digital wealth online, to make a transaction on the ethereum network before it is so easy that your Grandma can use it. It isn't for everyone..... today. Because the user interface isn't dummy-proof yet, and real world value is on the line. Anyone on this forum who already has PMs is miles ahead of the general public. But anyone on this forum holding PMs and some crypto is a couple steps ahead of even the proudest of PM bulls. Cheers.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Fri May 11, 2018

Every now and then someone comes in and raises the same objections I did myself back in the winter of 2016-17. They are valid points, and I wasn't wrong when I raised them. It's not for everybody. SilverDoge and I (and others here too, probably) have been able to convert crypto profit to nice little stacks of gold. My precious metal stack is in a better state because of crypto. The forms of storing assets don't exclude each other. Even crypto proponents recommend keeping most of your wealth in traditional assets: real estate, stocks, fiat, etc.

I have friends and relatives who think people who buy precious metal and sock it away for a SHTF scenario are nutty conspiracy theorists. I gave up trying to convince them otherwise.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Fri May 11, 2018

yep. i use crypto to grow my stack and hold asset classes for most given scenarios.

I would make a correction. Blockchain Tech is separate from Bitcoin Protocol. While a lot of people on the public front are focused on what's happening in the open source world. The private sector is implementing blockchain that has little to do with bitcoin. Bitcoin is a public protocol and everyone knows that 2nd layer is the future because you want to privatize the data off the main chain. 2nd layer gives the control back to companies to hide the data back into silo's.

A lot of the development in the private sector is to help business put in the data integrity safeguards but without the silly fee structure on the public side. Private chains do not require setting a fee. Now instead of hundreds of open source volunteers, you have thousands of highly paid highly skilled tech professionals working on improving the protocol.

This might not sound like it changes things but it definitely does. Open source software in the 2000's was weak with just volunteers. When business started to contribute back to open source projects, that's when there was a huge development in Web 2.0 from 2008 to present but from 1990's 2008 with just volunteers, there's only so much that can be done. Companies like FB, Micro$oft, Netflix, Google, Amazon, etc. all contribute back to opensource which are tools that are used by the blockchain devs today.

I know of several companies that are integrating blockchain tech into their business that has nothing to do with the currency aspect. Bitcoin protocol is a methodology to ensure specific things. Bitcoin(BTC) is one application and it's already moved beyond the currency part.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Brick's » Fri May 11, 2018

I love the fact that there are so many others on this forum who know way more than I do in areas I can't go. Thank you all. You help validate concepts and processes I can only surmise. Give me the courage to take risk I wouldn't do otherwise. Hold my hand when I'm terribly unsure of my self and otherwise give me great joy to see the world thru your eyes as I move down the path of gaining awareness. While I still consider my self The Cryptotard and a Technonube some who know less than I consider me a source for sharing what you have given me. I do feel the skin of those descriptors starting to sluff off. Emphasis on starting.

This much I do know; block chain is not only the future, it is now.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Southpaw » Sun May 13, 2018


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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun May 13, 2018

Southpaw wrote:https://medium.com/crypto-oracle/the-top-10-reasons-people-cant-see-the-crypto-light-ffcb8317b80a?source=linkShare-ba07a665a5ad-1526213007


That's a good top 10 list. Spot on.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby blevdawgAg47 » Sun May 13, 2018

SilverDoge wrote:
Southpaw wrote:https://medium.com/crypto-oracle/the-top-10-reasons-people-cant-see-the-crypto-light-ffcb8317b80a?source=linkShare-ba07a665a5ad-1526213007


That's a good top 10 list. Spot on.


I read the article and agree with most of the points about different barriers people have regarding crypto currencies.

There are others that don't fall into any of these pre-defined categories. This is where I disagree with author. He makes it seem as if you aren't all-in on crypto currencies, you are just ignorant. Too lazy, too old, too naive, too skeptical, etc. Nobody wants to be any of those things; so the author puts the reader into box where they must agree with him. This is a limiting view, if you ask me. One worthy of the mockingbird media.

There is another viewpoint one could look at. How bout the intellectual and moral opposition to electronic, digital money? :idea:

Maybe the author didn't consider that there are others who have done the work, studied the materials, and understand the principles of blockchain and digital ledger technology in general. Maybe they agree that DLT is a wonderful, revolutionary innovation to vastly improve existing record keeping and accounting systems, and can be used in conjunction with money, just not as money itself.

The author should consider that there are some who can think for themselves, and don't need to be mislead by Charlatans.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun May 13, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:How bout the intellectual and moral opposition to electronic, digital money?


Moral opposition? Can you expand on that for us. This might be a new objection that I've not heard yet, and I'm keenly interested in all good objections.

blevdawgAg47 wrote:Maybe the author didn't consider that there are others who have done the work, studied the materials, and understand the principles of blockchain and digital ledger technology in general. Maybe they agree that DLT is a wonderful, revolutionary innovation to vastly improve existing record keeping and accounting systems, and can be used in conjunction with money, just not as money itself.

The author should consider that there are some who can think for themselves, and don't need to be mislead by Charlatans.


The people that have put in the work to understand it all, usually come up with a few decent objections: 1) blockchain tech could be revolutionary but bitcoin itself has no value, 2) the internet can be wiped out by EMP/solar flare, 3) all governments could outlaw it, 4) because it is open source, infinite alt-coins can be created and therefore bitcoin isn't unique and has no value and the 21 million coins is an artificial cap because of this alt-coin infinite supply potential.

I have addressed all these previously, and while some seem to be decent, when you really delve into the objections they don't hold up that well (except the solar flare sending us back to the 19th century).
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby blevdawgAg47 » Sun May 13, 2018

SilverDoge wrote:
blevdawgAg47 wrote:How bout the intellectual and moral opposition to electronic, digital money?


Moral opposition? Can you expand on that for us. This might be a new objection that I've not heard yet, and I'm keenly interested in all good objections.


:lol: I've never had anyone ask for a lecture on morality. Kind of a deep and personal subject, but as it pertains to crypto currencies, I could sum it up in 3 words or less: Don't defraud people. Of course, that's just me. I wouldn't force my morals on someone else, when I could just as easily choose not to interact socially or economically with them. That's the beauty of freedom.

My commentary was intended to criticize the author of the article referenced, particularly for the manipulative propaganda tactics employed in his writing. The context of which is a couple posts above. In addition, I wanted offer a different point of view on useful applications of digital ledger technology other than a speculative crypto casino. To be used in productive, value-adding applications that can be used in conjunction with money or assets, not as money themselves.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun May 13, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:
blevdawgAg47 wrote:How bout the intellectual and moral opposition to electronic, digital money?


Moral opposition? Can you expand on that for us. This might be a new objection that I've not heard yet, and I'm keenly interested in all good objections.


:lol: I've never had anyone ask for a lecture on morality. Kind of a deep and personal subject, but as it pertains to crypto currencies, I could sum it up in 3 words or less: Don't defraud people. Of course, that's just me. I wouldn't force my morals on someone else, when I could just as easily choose not to interact socially or economically with them. That's the beauty of freedom.

My commentary was intended to criticize the author of the article referenced, particularly for the manipulative propaganda tactics employed in his writing. The context of which is a couple posts above. In addition, I wanted offer a different point of view on useful applications of digital ledger technology other than a speculative crypto casino. To be used in productive, value-adding applications that can be used in conjunction with money or assets, not as money themselves.

Not asking for a lecture on morality. I'm asking on what your moral opposition would be to using bitcoin or crypto currencies. Throughout your response, I didn't notice one. Unless you are implying that bitcoin is a fraud, and therefore to tout it is to "defraud people".... which makes no sense to me because it is a 100% completely voluntary currency unlike almost every other currency people have used previously.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby blevdawgAg47 » Sun May 13, 2018

SilverDoge wrote:
blevdawgAg47 wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:
blevdawgAg47 wrote:How bout the intellectual and moral opposition to electronic, digital money?


Moral opposition? Can you expand on that for us. This might be a new objection that I've not heard yet, and I'm keenly interested in all good objections.


:lol: I've never had anyone ask for a lecture on morality. Kind of a deep and personal subject, but as it pertains to crypto currencies, I could sum it up in 3 words or less: Don't defraud people. Of course, that's just me. I wouldn't force my morals on someone else, when I could just as easily choose not to interact socially or economically with them. That's the beauty of freedom.

My commentary was intended to criticize the author of the article referenced, particularly for the manipulative propaganda tactics employed in his writing. The context of which is a couple posts above. In addition, I wanted offer a different point of view on useful applications of digital ledger technology other than a speculative crypto casino. To be used in productive, value-adding applications that can be used in conjunction with money or assets, not as money themselves.

Not asking for a lecture on morality. I'm asking on what your moral opposition would be to using bitcoin or crypto currencies. Throughout your response, I didn't notice one. Unless you are implying that bitcoin is a fraud, and therefore to tout it is to "defraud people".... which makes no sense to me because it is a 100% completely voluntary currency unlike almost every other currency people have used previously.


I'm not implying bitcoin is a fraud. That would be like implying that guns are murderers. It's not the tool, it's the conscious intent, the human element that determines whether a tool is used for good or evil.
Just a cursory search of the term "Bitcoin fraud" turns up millions of hits. That's just bitcoin, not including the thousands of alt-coins and ICO's that are rampant with get-rich quick scammers looking to take advantage of people's greed. This doesn't mean that all cryptos are scams, but does give an indication of the mentality or consciousness, pervasive within the space. This doesn't meet my moral standards, so I choose not to participate. Simple as that.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Brick's » Sun May 13, 2018

Apologies in advance as I know it's the system we grew up with and were told was good and is basically all we know within the scope of our life experience.

Googled up White Collar frauds, 4.16 million hits. From the Cornell Law School: "in 1939 during a presidential address given by Edwin Sutherland to the American Sociological Society. Sutherland defined the term as "crime committed by a person of respectability and high social status in the course of his occupation."" The person referred to now days is usually a professional or government employee, e.g. a Bankster. All done within the space, scope and use of the U.S Dollar. Truly does not meet my moral standards and I would not participate in a second when something better comes along that can prevent it and becomes as prevalent.

Waiting patiently for Crypto.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby blevdawgAg47 » Sun May 13, 2018

Now that I've addressed my personal moral opposition to crypto currency; More importantly, I'd like to address the reason why I started this commentary in the first place. It was to call attention to the disingenuous, manipulative article posted earlier in the thread and then supported by Silverdoge. In a strange turn of events, Silverdoge chose to scrutinize my personal objections to bitcoin rather than address the article and it's author's tactics that I took issue with. Hmmm.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon May 14, 2018

blevdawgAg47 wrote:This is where I disagree with author. He makes it seem as if you aren't all-in on crypto currencies, you are just ignorant. Too lazy, too old, too naive, too skeptical, etc. Nobody wants to be any of those things; so the author puts the reader into box where they must agree with him. This is a limiting view, if you ask me. One worthy of the mockingbird media.


blevdawgAg47 wrote:Now that I've addressed my personal moral opposition to crypto currency; More importantly, I'd like to address the reason why I started this commentary in the first place. It was to call attention to the disingenuous, manipulative article posted earlier in the thread and then supported by Silverdoge. In a strange turn of events, Silverdoge chose to scrutinize my personal objections to bitcoin rather than address the article and it's author's tactics that I took issue with. Hmmm.


I think you are reading too much into this. A crypto enthusiast merely lists the top 10 reasons people aren't into crypto.

"Supported by SilverDoge".... I merely said the article was spot on. Because it is. The biggest reason people aren't into crypto is his reason #5 - they just don't care. There is no implicit judgment involved with not caring or not having an interest in a topic/subject. I don't care about figure skating. Could a figure skater accuse me of not caring about their favorite sport? Absolutely. Does this offend me in some way? No, why should it? People live busy lives, work, family, kids, social commitments, 24/7 online news, etc. I get it that the average Joe trying to make ends meet on a daily basis does not care about crypto. I do not fault him for this. If he has interest in learning, I am happy to help. In fact, there might be a bitcoin/crypto beginner's guide for just that reason: http://www.bullionstacker.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=28780

I choose to "scrutinize" your objection because this is a forum where we can have a dialogue. That article author isn't coming onto BS to continue the conversation, but we can. And it was your "moral objection" that piqued my interest more than any of his commentary anyway.

blevdawgAg47 wrote:I'm not implying bitcoin is a fraud. That would be like implying that guns are murderers. It's not the tool, it's the conscious intent, the human element that determines whether a tool is used for good or evil.
Just a cursory search of the term "Bitcoin fraud" turns up millions of hits. That's just bitcoin, not including the thousands of alt-coins and ICO's that are rampant with get-rich quick scammers looking to take advantage of people's greed. This doesn't mean that all cryptos are scams, but does give an indication of the mentality or consciousness, pervasive within the space. This doesn't meet my moral standards, so I choose not to participate. Simple as that.


You seem to get it... "bitcoin isn't a fraud because it's a tool" but then fall back into the trap of blaming the tool. Or is it that you don't want to associate with people who use crypto because there are scams in this space? If we were to take a similar technology, would your moral standards still be so high? The internet today is the tool used to distribute more pornography each week, than was possible each year, a mere 30 years ago. You actively use the same technology that pornographers use to profit and morally degrade today's youth and society. But here you are, on the internet, associating with other people also using the internet.

Ironically, there is already a thread asking if a Christian should use crypto or not: http://www.bullionstacker.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=27955

From my knowledge, not a single alt-coin thread started by anyone here has been an exit-scam. We have warned people about both BitConnect (before the collapse) and Tether. Just because there are scam artists in crypto, or on the internet, or on Wall Street, or in our own communities - doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby blevdawgAg47 » Mon May 14, 2018

SilverDoge wrote:
blevdawgAg47 wrote:This is where I disagree with author. He makes it seem as if you aren't all-in on crypto currencies, you are just ignorant. Too lazy, too old, too naive, too skeptical, etc. Nobody wants to be any of those things; so the author puts the reader into box where they must agree with him. This is a limiting view, if you ask me. One worthy of the mockingbird media.


blevdawgAg47 wrote:Now that I've addressed my personal moral opposition to crypto currency; More importantly, I'd like to address the reason why I started this commentary in the first place. It was to call attention to the disingenuous, manipulative article posted earlier in the thread and then supported by Silverdoge. In a strange turn of events, Silverdoge chose to scrutinize my personal objections to bitcoin rather than address the article and it's author's tactics that I took issue with. Hmmm.


I think you are reading too much into this. A crypto enthusiast merely lists the top 10 reasons people aren't into crypto.

"Supported by SilverDoge".... I merely said the article was spot on. Because it is. The biggest reason people aren't into crypto is his reason #5 - they just don't care. There is no implicit judgment involved with not caring or not having an interest in a topic/subject. I don't care about figure skating. Could a figure skater accuse me of not caring about their favorite sport? Absolutely. Does this offend me in some way? No, why should it? People live busy lives, work, family, kids, social commitments, 24/7 online news, etc. I get it that the average Joe trying to make ends meet on a daily basis does not care about crypto. I do not fault him for this. If he has interest in learning, I am happy to help. In fact, there might be a bitcoin/crypto beginner's guide for just that reason: http://www.bullionstacker.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=28780

I choose to "scrutinize" your objection because this is a forum where we can have a dialogue. That article author isn't coming onto BS to continue the conversation, but we can. And it was your "moral objection" that piqued my interest more than any of his commentary anyway.

blevdawgAg47 wrote:I'm not implying bitcoin is a fraud. That would be like implying that guns are murderers. It's not the tool, it's the conscious intent, the human element that determines whether a tool is used for good or evil.
Just a cursory search of the term "Bitcoin fraud" turns up millions of hits. That's just bitcoin, not including the thousands of alt-coins and ICO's that are rampant with get-rich quick scammers looking to take advantage of people's greed. This doesn't mean that all cryptos are scams, but does give an indication of the mentality or consciousness, pervasive within the space. This doesn't meet my moral standards, so I choose not to participate. Simple as that.


You seem to get it... "bitcoin isn't a fraud because it's a tool" but then fall back into the trap of blaming the tool. Or is it that you don't want to associate with people who use crypto because there are scams in this space? If we were to take a similar technology, would your moral standards still be so high? The internet today is the tool used to distribute more pornography each week, than was possible each year, a mere 30 years ago. You actively use the same technology that pornographers use to profit and morally degrade today's youth and society. But here you are, on the internet, associating with other people also using the internet.

Ironically, there is already a thread asking if a Christian should use crypto or not: http://www.bullionstacker.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=27955

From my knowledge, not a single alt-coin thread started by anyone here has been an exit-scam. We have warned people about both BitConnect (before the collapse) and Tether. Just because there are scam artists in crypto, or on the internet, or on Wall Street, or in our own communities - doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bath water.


Sorry to keep quoting, trying to keep authenticity of context.

I firmly disagree with your take on the article as spot on. Evidenced by people such as myself, and there are others too, who are not crypto-ignoramous and still choose to abstain from crypto-currency. My position holds that the author was incorrect at best, or intentionally disingenuous/misleading would be my guess.

Furthermore, I don't appreciate you calling me personally into the mix and trying to make me look like a hypocrite with that internet use/porn supporting straw-man.

I know what you're doing. Look, I don't get paid to type on the internet all day. It must be a full-time job to contribute so much content on this thread alone. I've had my suspicions, and they're getting warmer.
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